Comments on: B&B Friday: Missing More Than Music http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:46:23 -0400 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Tim Archer http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-3242 Tim Archer Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:44:35 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-3242 Royce, I actually know someone who opposes kids playing religious songs in the high school band. He is against using instruments with Christian songs, no matter the setting. Grace and peace, Tim Archer Royce,
I actually know someone who opposes kids playing religious songs in the high school band. He is against using instruments with Christian songs, no matter the setting.
Grace and peace,
Tim Archer

]]> By: Royce Ogle http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-3241 Royce Ogle Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:57:56 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-3241 Two men could pass notes to each other on this subject in a dimly lit basement in Siberia and Kenneth Sublett would show up. Wouldn't it be something if when we stand before God we find that He didn't give a second thought to a capella or not in worship, except that the subject divided believers. What if He cares more about harmony in your heart and in your life with others more than He does about music? The most odd idea is that IM is not ok in "the building" on Sunday morning, then is acceptable in an adjoining building or at some other location. What nut decided that worship can only happen in "the building"? That is more lame than the music question itself. Happy New Year, Royce Ogle Two men could pass notes to each other on this subject in a dimly lit basement in Siberia and Kenneth Sublett would show up.

Wouldn’t it be something if when we stand before God we find that He didn’t give a second thought to a capella or not in worship, except that the subject divided believers. What if He cares more about harmony in your heart and in your life with others more than He does about music?

The most odd idea is that IM is not ok in “the building” on Sunday morning, then is acceptable in an adjoining building or at some other location. What nut decided that worship can only happen in “the building”? That is more lame than the music question itself.

Happy New Year,
Royce Ogle

]]> By: Kenneth Sublett http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1638 Kenneth Sublett Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:13:21 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1638 I have begun a review of Danny: his is a retake of Tom Burgess and others and I began with some old testament background: if you understand Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness you grasp that vocal and instrumental rejoicing was excluded. htt://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbitt.Instruments.html I have also posted a paper on the synagogue beginning after the fall from grace because of musical idolatry. http://www.piney.com/Synagogue1.html Because Danny's effort seems to discredit Dr. Everett Ferguson on the PSALMOS word I have posted some real data here. http://www.piney.com/Psalmos.Corbitt.Ferguson.html Well known: if you want to indicate playing an instrument you have to name what is plucked. If you want to sing and play an instrument you MUS use a compound word: the Greeks had one for each of their instruments. None of these are used in the Bible: again because church is ekklesia, sinagogue or school of the Bible. The Campbells tried to restore A School of Christ where worship after baptism was "reading and musing the Word." That was the command in the wilderness and has never been rescinded. I think allof the older scholars understood that and rejected instruments. Thanks, Ken I have begun a review of Danny: his is a retake of Tom Burgess and others and I began with some old testament background: if you understand Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness you grasp that vocal and instrumental rejoicing was excluded.

htt://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbitt.Instruments.html

I have also posted a paper on the synagogue beginning after the fall from grace because of musical idolatry.

http://www.piney.com/Synagogue1.html

Because Danny’s effort seems to discredit Dr. Everett Ferguson on the PSALMOS word I have posted some real data here.

http://www.piney.com/Psalmos.Corbitt.Ferguson.html

Well known: if you want to indicate playing an instrument you have to name what is plucked. If you want to sing and play an instrument you MUS use a compound word: the Greeks had one for each of their instruments.

None of these are used in the Bible: again because church is ekklesia, sinagogue or school of the Bible. The Campbells tried to restore A School of Christ where worship after baptism was “reading and musing the Word.” That was the command in the wilderness and has never been rescinded. I think allof the older scholars understood that and rejected instruments.

Thanks, Ken

]]> By: Instrumental Music: Missing More Than Music by Danny Corbitt, Introduction « One In Jesus.info http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1604 Instrumental Music: Missing More Than Music by Danny Corbitt, Introduction « One In Jesus.info Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:02:06 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1604 [...] More Than Music by Danny Corbitt, Introduction Posted on July 4, 2009 by Jay Guin Thanks to Tim Archer’s post of a few days ago, I’ve been reading Danny Corbitt’s Missing More Than Music: When Disputable Matters [...] [...] More Than Music by Danny Corbitt, Introduction Posted on July 4, 2009 by Jay Guin Thanks to Tim Archer’s post of a few days ago, I’ve been reading Danny Corbitt’s Missing More Than Music: When Disputable Matters [...]

]]> By: Trent Tanaro http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1550 Trent Tanaro Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:07:18 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1550 Well said Greg, it's sad but true. That happens in a lot of Churches. Tim, it looks like you have touched on a "hot topic", so,so sad that it is though....peace... Well said Greg, it’s sad but true. That happens in a lot of Churches. Tim, it looks like you have touched on a “hot topic”, so,so sad that it is though….peace…

]]> By: Greg England http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1549 Greg England Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:25:05 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1549 Tim: I just read the first 20 or so pages of Danny's book and I just shake my head that anyone takes our traditional arguments seriously. Many years ago when I was preaching in Florida, I asked a couple who were new to Christ and new to the concept of church to go with me to Daytona Beach area to hear a friend of mine from North Alabama. The subject of that evening's "sermon" was why we don't use instrumental music in worship. I was very embarrassed to have this new couple have to sit through that, but on the way home my friend said, "If I understood what the preacher said tonight, you don't use instrumental music in worship because Noah built the ark out of gopher wood?" I told him as stupid as that sounds, that's just about the best argument we've ever devised to support our ban on the instrument! Before others chime in with the extended arguments, I grew up in "our" movement and I know all the arguments. I find HUGE logical and theological holes in all of them. Tim: I just read the first 20 or so pages of Danny’s book and I just shake my head that anyone takes our traditional arguments seriously. Many years ago when I was preaching in Florida, I asked a couple who were new to Christ and new to the concept of church to go with me to Daytona Beach area to hear a friend of mine from North Alabama. The subject of that evening’s “sermon” was why we don’t use instrumental music in worship. I was very embarrassed to have this new couple have to sit through that, but on the way home my friend said, “If I understood what the preacher said tonight, you don’t use instrumental music in worship because Noah built the ark out of gopher wood?” I told him as stupid as that sounds, that’s just about the best argument we’ve ever devised to support our ban on the instrument!

Before others chime in with the extended arguments, I grew up in “our” movement and I know all the arguments. I find HUGE logical and theological holes in all of them.

]]> By: Greg England http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1548 Greg England Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:21:09 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1548 My years at Long Beach allowed me to move beyond this as an issue. Now that I am no longer preaching, it's just nice not to have to deal with this on any level. But I do appreciate those who are still in the battle and willing to do some study and publishing on this. My years at Long Beach allowed me to move beyond this as an issue. Now that I am no longer preaching, it’s just nice not to have to deal with this on any level. But I do appreciate those who are still in the battle and willing to do some study and publishing on this.

]]> By: Trent Tanaro http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1547 Trent Tanaro Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:00:08 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1547 I understand the struggle with this topic and I respect all who have researched it well. But I do believe there are things that Jesus would like us to focus on that are more important. Love, grace, the Cross, the poor, etc....just an observation. The things we spend time on...I wounder if we will be surprised someday when Christ says "and what does that have to do with my mission?"...For example an entire issue of a current brotherhood publication was devoted to this issue...We need topics and discussion on the more important core "Gospel" (the cross) matters. Great post Tim and great responses Joe!! Trent I understand the struggle with this topic and I respect all who have researched it well. But I do believe there are things that Jesus would like us to focus on that are more important. Love, grace, the Cross, the poor, etc….just an observation. The things we spend time on…I wounder if we will be surprised someday when Christ says “and what does that have to do with my mission?”…For example an entire issue of a current brotherhood publication was devoted to this issue…We need topics and discussion on the more important core “Gospel” (the cross) matters. Great post Tim and great responses Joe!!

Trent

]]> By: Tim Archer http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1546 Tim Archer Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:48:25 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1546 Mine has been called an instrument of torture… Mine has been called an instrument of torture…

]]> By: laymond http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1545 laymond Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:44:19 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1545 Instrument-A means by which something is done; an agency. Tim, would our voice be considered an instrument? I know mine wouldn't - especially for singing :) Instrument-A means by which something is done; an agency.
Tim, would our voice be considered an instrument? I know mine wouldn’t – especially for singing :)

]]> By: Tim Archer http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1544 Tim Archer Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:23:18 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1544 Well, starting from the bottom, I totally reject views #4 and #5. Especially the last one. I'll confess to not being enough of a Greek scholar to have much of an opinion on #3, which means I can't teach it as being true. I think it's a mistake to view #2 as referring to public worship. It's hard to be sure about #1, although I think that historical evidence strongly suggests that the early church did not use instruments. (Corbitt didn't have much to say about the evidence from the synagogues of the day, which I think greatly affected the organization of early Christian worship) That's why I say that I don't hold to those five views. I personally don't see instrumental music as a salvation issue, but have strong ties to my Christian heritage. No one has ever been able to prove that non-instrumental worship is wrong, and there is much that is good and edifying about it. Just the opposite of Corbitt, I have found instrumental worship to leave me cold in a way that non-instrumental worship rarely does. Grace and peace, Tim Archer Well, starting from the bottom, I totally reject views #4 and #5. Especially the last one. I’ll confess to not being enough of a Greek scholar to have much of an opinion on #3, which means I can’t teach it as being true. I think it’s a mistake to view #2 as referring to public worship. It’s hard to be sure about #1, although I think that historical evidence strongly suggests that the early church did not use instruments. (Corbitt didn’t have much to say about the evidence from the synagogues of the day, which I think greatly affected the organization of early Christian worship)

That’s why I say that I don’t hold to those five views. I personally don’t see instrumental music as a salvation issue, but have strong ties to my Christian heritage. No one has ever been able to prove that non-instrumental worship is wrong, and there is much that is good and edifying about it. Just the opposite of Corbitt, I have found instrumental worship to leave me cold in a way that non-instrumental worship rarely does.

Grace and peace,
Tim Archer

]]> By: Joe Palmer http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1543 Joe Palmer Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:09:57 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1543 Tim I am curious since you say you don't hold to any of these views, why you are in an acapella worship fellowship? I am not trying to get into a debate just curious about your beliefs. Tim I am curious since you say you don’t hold to any of these views, why you are in an acapella worship fellowship? I am not trying to get into a debate just curious about your beliefs.

]]> By: Tim Archer http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1542 Tim Archer Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:01:19 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1542 Thanks for the comment, Joe. Welcome to the Kitchen! Admittedly, I think that mixing in the chorus issue dilutes the thrust of the book a bit, but I do see how it fits through the use of Ephesians 5:19. Grace and peace, Tim Archer Thanks for the comment, Joe. Welcome to the Kitchen! Admittedly, I think that mixing in the chorus issue dilutes the thrust of the book a bit, but I do see how it fits through the use of Ephesians 5:19.

Grace and peace,
Tim Archer

]]> By: Joe Palmer http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700&cpage=1#comment-1541 Joe Palmer Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:58:23 +0000 http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/?p=1700#comment-1541 I like the way he breaks this down into five issues. I personally have no problem with choruses in worship. I have long held a view that if instruments are wrong in public worship then they can't be okay in private worship. What's the difference between the two? Are the both worship? I don't think anyone can truly say that the scriptures apply to public worship and not private. I like the way he breaks this down into five issues. I personally have no problem with choruses in worship. I have long held a view that if instruments are wrong in public worship then they can’t be okay in private worship. What’s the difference between the two? Are the both worship? I don’t think anyone can truly say that the scriptures apply to public worship and not private.

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