10 responses

  1. Laymond
    August 29, 2014

    So all that “And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age” was just a ruse? Talk of where two or more are gathered, I am there? Jesus lives in the believer, not just in Heaven. He is inside of us…

    Tim in my opinion Jesus was speaking of living in the Christian (his children) just as our parents (long dead) of this earth live in us . I can’t remember a day that I don’t call on what my parents taught me, and what Jesus taught me in the gospel. I call on that knowledge not once every day but many times every day. Yes as an old man I still have a relationship with both my spiritual leader Jesus, and my natural teachers (parents, and grandparents) and they will live within our spirit and mind as long as we allow then to do so. and I thank God for giving me both.


  2. Wes Dawson
    August 29, 2014

    Having read the book, John Mark’s review, and most importantly the Word of God: I have to agree with you that if we do not have a personal relationship with Christ, we have a major problem. Like many who were brought up in the church of Christ, I grew up thinking that such a relationship was impossible because of my imperfections. Imagine my surprise when I learned from Romans chapter 8 that my imperfections were why I had to have a personal relationship with him, and that without it I “am none of his” (Romans 8:9).


  3. Julie Lavender
    August 30, 2014

    My personal relationship with Jesus is really a “personalized” relationship in that HE speaks directly to me with promises to be fulfilled in my life. A view of HIM that speaks the same generic message to everyone is not very personal. But instead a personal walk, a personalized walk, leads to “the joy we share as we tarry there” that “none other has ever known.”


  4. Laymond
    August 30, 2014

    “There’s a lot more to be said. I should point out, though, that we’re seeing an amazing disconnect in our brotherhood.”
    I fully agree with Tim on this point, but I am afraid he and I would disagree greatly on just what caused this split, and when it happened.
    In my opinion it happened when the progressives in the church started raising Jesus to the position of “God” and began to worship Jesus as God, even started calling “the son of God ” God. without explaining just when it was that God the creator relinqusied his throne to his son.

    Do you believe the witnesses of Jesus baptism lied? Or are you calling God a liar?

    1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
    (And Jesus Christ was revealed as God’s Son by his baptism in water and by shedding his blood on the cross—not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit, who is truth, confirms it with his testimony.)
    Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
    1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
    1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

    If we teach that Jesus was really God in flesh, or that Jesus was God. We surely call God a liar.
    or discount the record of Jesus baptism. And if we discount the record or witness of Jesus baptism, how could we be seen as believing any part of the word. ?


    • Tim Archer
      August 30, 2014

      Laymond, you were doing so well. I was quite impressed with the tone of your first comment.

      I’ll also remind you that I’ve invited you several times to discuss the question of Jesus’ divinity on the posts where that topic is addressed, instead of trying to shoehorn it into every discussion.

      I’d be glad to continue our discussion there: http://www.timothyarcher.com/kitchen/they-call-me-trinity/


  5. Laymond
    August 30, 2014

    Tim, I am sorry I don’t keep the address of that specific post on my mind, and I was not responding to that post, but this recent one where you said “If I want to talk to people about the gospel and don’t center that talk around Jesus, something is seriously wrong.” .
    The gospel just like everything about Jesus began with God. I know people refer to it as the gospel of Jesus Christ, they also refer to Old Testament law given by God as the law of Moses. I believe it was Paul who said the law of God was brought by Moses, and the love and grace of God was brought by Jesus. In other words the gospel of God was delivered by his son Jesus. I believe it was Jesus himself that said it was not about him, it was about God. I do believe Jesus is the one who said God gave him the very words to speak.
    When we place someone besides God at the center of religion we error and go counter to what Jesus said.


  6. Laymond
    August 30, 2014

    Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Actually it was not Paul, it was John.


  7. Michael Shank
    June 29, 2015

    Dear brother Tim,

    God bless your sincere heart of love and your desire to expand the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ!

    Brother, I just wrote a post to John Mark Hicks (via his website at John Mark Hicks Ministries) and humbly asked him to review the sequel to Muscle and a Shovel. It is titled, “When Shovels Break,” and picks up where the first story ended.

    Brother, it is a story of a man who became a Christian, but became discouraged, went back into sin (far worse than he had ever experienced before), was brought to the point of hopelessness believing that suicide was his only option – but found the love, forgiveness, and mercy of God! He not only returned to the faith of our Lord, but became a fruitful member of our Lord’s body.

    I would love to send you a free copy for your review, as long as you are interested. Please email me a good mailing address for you and we will ship out a free copy immediately. God’s richest blessings upon you and upon all of those whom you love. your friend and bro with humility, mike

    Michael Shank


  8. Dwight
    March 26, 2018

    I don’t believe that M. Shank is alone in his belief that we do not form a personal relationship with Jesus to the point that salvation isn’t personal.
    But then again where does this leave prayer that we are supposed to pray to God?
    In the scriptures we see personal prayers as much if not more than group prayers.
    David’s psalms are basically prayers to God and some of them are very personal.
    Even Jesus prayed to God and He was God.
    The big push in the coC is to make salvation mechanical.
    You have faith, repent and are baptized, then you are saved.
    But where is Jesus in all of this?
    We kind of bypass Jesus.
    What we miss is that salvation is based on a savior’s love, mercy, grace and forgiveness.
    Jesus is the Savior and Jesus is willing to forgive the penitent.
    We have a disconnect between the man on the cross who Jesus saved and what we read in Acts 2, but they are really the same in what happens.
    The man on the cross knows of Jesus, and has faith in Jesus, and confesses Jesus and Jesus forgives him. Now for this to happen the penitent had to be before Jesus.
    In Acts 2 we have people learning of Jesus (possibly relearning), having faith, confessing Jesus and being forgiven.
    Now the person who knows Acts 2 will say, but they were baptized!
    Yes, but baptism doesn’t forgive, but places us before the forgiver.
    This is seen in the OT where the unclean had to wash and become clean in order to stand before God and receive His blessings.
    IT is not mechanical in the OT and it is not mechanical in the NT.
    Each must humbly come clean before God in order to stand before God and receive His blessings.
    Yes, salvation was broadcast to the world, but we, each, must come before God.
    God lifts up the weak and humble.
    God delivers by sending a man to be a person to deliver others.


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